Hi all,
You may have heard this one before...
Looking to buy some stocks, I was wondering if you experienced folks could recommend a trustworthy brokerage firm with low commissions and no minimum balance?? By my calculation, the quarterly fees charged by e-trade could more than eat up any potential gains in my "buy and hold" strategy.
Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!!
You may have heard this one before...
Looking to buy some stocks, I was wondering if you experienced folks could recommend a trustworthy brokerage firm with low commissions and no minimum balance?? By my calculation, the quarterly fees charged by e-trade could more than eat up any potential gains in my "buy and hold" strategy.
Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!!
-
Re: brokerage recommendations
Sat, March 1, 2008 - 4:41 PMHi -
I've likely used about 4 or 5 different on-line brokerage firms.
For what you describe, I'd recommend:
1) www.sharebuilder.com - there's no fee, no minimum to start and if you are doing buy and hold, or dollar cost averaging, you can set up trades to go thru on tuesdays I think for $4/trade. I started this way, I'm more of a swing trader and growth stock guy, so I don't use these guys anymore. But, I do still have my account, and thanks to you, I logged in and need to change some settings. It looks like they teamed up with a new bank also, so I may not be up to date on things with them. They also had a decent return on your money thats not tied up in stocks. Anyway, this one worked well for me when I was doing dollar cost averaging. The only thing is that if you buy $ amounts of stocks, rather than full shares, there is extra accounting to do when it finally comes to tax time, I guess if you buy and hold or dollar cost average, its no biggie. Here's their breakdown. Real time trades - which you have to do if you want to sell are reasonably priced at $9.95 I think.
www.sharebuilder.com/sharebu...ult.aspx
2) www.zecco.com - it has $4.50 trades if your account is under $2500. Free if you don't (well, up to 10 trades a month I believe). I've used them, but I didn't like the interface that the money holding company - Penson Financial - runs and also since I may get in and out of a position in the same day or week, the settlement date times are a little slow (time it takes for your cash to free up) - but for your strategy, that's not a problem either. Personally, I liked sharebuilder better - but I haven't used them really since they merged with the new bank, and updated the site.
Another thing I liked about these two was that you do everything thru the web interface, one time I had used MB Trading ($1 per trade, but a much larger minimum start balance) that required you to download software to a windows based PC - which meant constant crashes, and I was dealing with a rather touchy stock that was making a huge run up (which means a huge run down to follow) and as with my experience goes with windows, it crashed at a key point and I lost $$$.
However, my current favorite is www.scottrade.com. No fees, $500 minimum (and if you don't have $500 to start - I'd work on that first before dabbling in stocks - the first thing you could do is write down every transaction you make, even down to the penny for 3 months (any beginning investment book will tell you to do this) and really see where your cash is going - trust me - your head can't calculate it and I'll send you a dollar if you aren't surprised by something or don't find a way to lessen your spending). Anyway, its $7 a trade (there is a small fee for buying stocks that are valued under $1, but I wouldn't buy and hold any of those) - but the on-line tools, accounting, short turn around on settlements (and not charging me margin fees as far as I can tell for buying something a little early) - makes it worth the extra in trading fees over the other two. I guess the price of the tools and stuff are made since they give a little less on the cash thats just sitting there not in positions. They also do stuff like mutual funds etc., though I don't dabble with those - ah, if you were looking to get into OTC stocks (small guys under $1) - they may not be featured at www.sharebuilder.com - but you can request them, provided you convince them that they are legit - a know of a guy who did that with DKAM.
One last thing - though its only my opinion, and you should always do your research - if you are going to buy and hold or dollar cost average, now (in my opinion) isn't the best time to start - leading stocks are under pressure, the market isn't in a clear uptrend, so you may wait a while. If you are a beginner, I'd at least go to the bookstore, and look for the big picture column in the newspaper investors business daily and there is a box called market pulse - start when the "Current outlook" box says "Market in confirmed rally". Currently I'd say the market is fine for aggressive people with experience, but these aren't buy and hold types, and I guess, everyday is great for day traders.
Have fun.
D
-
Re: brokerage recommendations
Sat, March 1, 2008 - 4:43 PMHi -
I've likely used about 4 or 5 different on-line brokerage firms.
For what you describe, I'd recommend:
1) www.sharebuilder.com - there's no fee, no minimum to start and if you are doing buy and hold, or dollar cost averaging, you can set up trades to go thru on tuesdays I think for $4/trade. I started this way, I'm more of a swing trader and growth stock guy, so I don't use these guys anymore. But, I do still have my account, and thanks to you, I logged in and need to change some settings. It looks like they teamed up with a new bank also, so I may not be up to date on things with them. They also had a decent return on your money thats not tied up in stocks. Anyway, this one worked well for me when I was doing dollar cost averaging. The only thing is that if you buy $ amounts of stocks, rather than full shares, there is extra accounting to do when it finally comes to tax time, I guess if you buy and hold or dollar cost average, its no biggie. Here's their breakdown. Real time trades - which you have to do if you want to sell are reasonably priced at $9.95 I think.
www.sharebuilder.com/sharebu...ult.aspx
2) www.zecco.com - it has $4.50 trades if your account is under $2500. Free if you don't (well, up to 10 trades a month I believe). I've used them, but I didn't like the interface that the money holding company - Penson Financial - runs and also since I may get in and out of a position in the same day or week, the settlement date times are a little slow (time it takes for your cash to free up) - but for your strategy, that's not a problem either. Personally, I liked sharebuilder better - but I haven't used them really since they merged with the new bank, and updated the site.
Another thing I liked about these two was that you do everything thru the web interface, one time I had used MB Trading ($1 per trade, but a much larger minimum start balance) that required you to download software to a windows based PC - which meant constant crashes, and I was dealing with a rather touchy stock that was making a huge run up (which means a huge run down to follow) and as with my experience goes with windows, it crashed at a key point and I lost $$$.
However, my current favorite is www.scottrade.com. No fees, $500 minimum (and if you don't have $500 to start - I'd work on that first before dabbling in stocks - the first thing you could do is write down every transaction you make, even down to the penny for 3 months (any beginning investment book will tell you to do this) and really see where your cash is going - trust me - your head can't calculate it and I'll send you a dollar if you aren't surprised by something or don't find a way to lessen your spending). Anyway, its $7 a trade (there is a small fee for buying stocks that are valued under $1, but I wouldn't buy and hold any of those) - but the on-line tools, accounting, short turn around on settlements (and not charging me margin fees as far as I can tell for buying something a little early) - makes it worth the extra in trading fees over the other two. I guess the price of the tools and stuff are made since they give a little less on the cash thats just sitting there not in positions. They also do stuff like mutual funds etc., though I don't dabble with those - ah, if you were looking to get into OTC stocks (small guys under $1) - they may not be featured at www.sharebuilder.com - but you can request them, provided you convince them that they are legit - a know of a guy who did that with DKAM.
One last thing - though its only my opinion, and you should always do your research - if you are going to buy and hold or dollar cost average, now (in my opinion) isn't the best time to start - leading stocks are under pressure, the market isn't in a clear uptrend, so you may wait a while. If you are a beginner, I'd at least go to the bookstore, and look for the big picture column in the newspaper investors business daily and there is a box called market pulse - start when the "Current outlook" box says "Market in confirmed rally". Currently I'd say the market is fine for aggressive people with experience, but these aren't buy and hold types, and I guess, everyday is great for day traders.
Have fun.
D
(there's something buggy about tribe at the moment - I may end up with a triple post)
-
Re: brokerage recommendations
Sat, March 1, 2008 - 4:46 PMHi -
I've likely used about 4 or 5 different on-line brokerage firms.
For what you describe, I'd recommend:
1) www.sharebuilder.com - there's no fee, no minimum to start and if you are doing buy and hold, or dollar cost averaging, you can set up trades to go thru on tuesdays I think for $4/trade. I started this way, I'm more of a swing trader and growth stock guy, so I don't use these guys anymore. But, I do still have my account, and thanks to you, I logged in and need to change some settings. It looks like they teamed up with a new bank also, so I may not be up to date on things with them. They also had a decent return on your money thats not tied up in stocks. Anyway, this one worked well for me when I was doing dollar cost averaging. The only thing is that if you buy $ amounts of stocks, rather than full shares, there is extra accounting to do when it finally comes to tax time, I guess if you buy and hold or dollar cost average, its no biggie. Here's their breakdown. Real time trades - which you have to do if you want to sell are reasonably priced at $9.95 I think.
www.sharebuilder.com/sharebu...ult.aspx
2) www.zecco.com - it has $4.50 trades if your account is under $2500. Free if you don't (well, up to 10 trades a month I believe). I've used them, but I didn't like the interface that the money holding company - Penson Financial - runs and also since I may get in and out of a position in the same day or week, the settlement date times are a little slow (time it takes for your cash to free up) - but for your strategy, that's not a problem either. Personally, I liked sharebuilder better - but I haven't used them really since they merged with the new bank, and updated the site.
Another thing I liked about these two was that you do everything thru the web interface, one time I had used MB Trading ($1 per trade, but a much larger minimum start balance) that required you to download software to a windows based PC - which meant constant crashes, and I was dealing with a rather touchy stock that was making a huge run up (which means a huge run down to follow) and as with my experience goes with windows, it crashed at a key point and I lost $$$.
However, my current favorite is www.scottrade.com. No fees, $500 minimum (and if you don't have $500 to start - I'd work on that first before dabbling in stocks - the first thing you could do is write down every transaction you make, even down to the penny for 3 months (any beginning investment book will tell you to do this) and really see where your cash is going - trust me - your head can't calculate it and I'll send you a dollar if you aren't surprised by something or don't find a way to lessen your spending). Anyway, its $7 a trade (there is a small fee for buying stocks that are valued under $1, but I wouldn't buy and hold any of those) - but the on-line tools, accounting, short turn around on settlements (and not charging me margin fees as far as I can tell for buying something a little early) - makes it worth the extra in trading fees over the other two. I guess the price of the tools and stuff are made since they give a little less on the cash thats just sitting there not in positions. They also do stuff like mutual funds etc., though I don't dabble with those - ah, if you were looking to get into OTC stocks (small guys under $1) - they may not be featured at www.sharebuilder.com - but you can request them, provided you convince them that they are legit - a know of a guy who did that with DKAM.
One last thing - though its only my opinion, and you should always do your research - if you are going to buy and hold or dollar cost average, now (in my opinion) isn't the best time to start - leading stocks are under pressure, the market isn't in a clear uptrend, so you may wait a while. If you are a beginner, I'd at least go to the bookstore, and look for the big picture column in the newspaper investors business daily and there is a box called market pulse - start when the "Current outlook" box says "Market in confirmed rally". Currently I'd say the market is fine for aggressive people with experience, but these aren't buy and hold types, and I guess, everyday is great for day traders.
Have fun.
D
Ok - tribe is a little wonky - I still don't see my post showing up - but since it took a while to write it, I'll give it one more try. I regret if it shows up 5 times later. -
-
Re: brokerage recommendations
Sun, March 2, 2008 - 3:52 AMWell, I was right - got a triple post - but I actually likely hit send 7 times. -
-
Re: brokerage recommendations
Sun, March 2, 2008 - 3:55 AMbtw, anyone have a recommendation for an on-line FOREX broker (or whatever they are called for FOREX)? I'm looking for one that does everything from the browser - no trading platforms that require you to download a program to run on microsoft windows.
-
Re: brokerage recommendations
Mon, March 3, 2008 - 11:59 AMThanks D!!! I really appreciate your advice. The book store is a good call... as is waiting.... I want to buy in (yes, with more than $500...) when the market totally hits rock bottom. The timing could be tricky! Because you're right it would be lame to shell out my investment $$$ and then watch it lose value. But it would sure be nice, if I can figure it precisely, to buy at the low point and then watch the market rally. I have a lot to learn... I'm keeping an eye on a couple of favored picks. I will definitely check out those online brokerages you recommended, that sounds great. Thanks very much! -
-
Re: brokerage recommendations
Wed, March 5, 2008 - 10:02 PMHaha - the guys who come close to figuring it out precisely end up making more money by writing books about it. I don't know if you are going for value or growth, but for beginners taking your approach reading a little from WJ O'Neil and L. Navellier (growth stock dudes - even if your taking a value approach, these guys have decent insights on how to tell if a company is doing ok), J. Murphy (chart reading) can help. Those books are in the Library, some can be found at bookstores could be helpful. Though I'd never have time to follow Lynch's strategies, one thing that he said helped me bag some of my bigger trades - keeping an eye out for new products that you know something about. Years ago, this aging computer company made this little data storage device - I got one for free when I bought one of their computers. I got the computer since I could use UNIX, which was required to do my job, but you could also read word .doc files on it too, without turning it on and off to switch operating systems. Once I saw some non-computer geek types actually using those data storage devices to listen to music, iPOD's they called them, and some large systems brought into work to replace our SGI cluster, I bought some stock at $15 and kept buying more every month (dollar cost averaging). Though I trade much differently now - (likely to my demise!) some of the biggest gainers I've had, some of which I should have kept as long term plays, were Apple, Hansen natural juices, Crocs. Anyway, there's only one way to learn, and thats put your money in at some point - don't go nuts cause it takes some time to learn. -
-
Re: brokerage recommendations
Tue, March 25, 2008 - 11:04 AMweeks later, still doing some research, still have not made the plunge because I don't think I've seen either rock bottom or a sustainable rally... i'm looking for dividends, so once i throw down the dough i'll have to grit my teeth during various market ups and downs; now i'm starting to think maybe for best value I should wait until July or August. I anticipate another big decline in the book value of all those CDO's, that should make the market sink. The trick is to buy a company that's undervalued vs. one that's going to do a big fat Bear Stearns flop!!! -
-
Re: brokerage recommendations
Sat, March 29, 2008 - 1:47 PMI can guarantee you one thing - If you think you can know where 'rock bottom' is, you're wrong. Some sectors are rising, several are sliding, but there's no such thing as a generic bottom unless you are talking about one specific item like an index or a single stock. Everything behaves differently, and markets are about 90% psychology so it doesn't have to make any sense economically. You might as well throw darts at a chart if you want to make bottom predictions.
I spend over 40 hours a week watching the stock market. I trade some stocks, but mostly options. A typical month will have between 10 and 40 trades, depending on what opportunities I can find. I have no idea where the bottom of this market will be, and it's not really relevant. Rising markets seem to rise slower than falling markets fall, so I find that it's easier to make bear money. When things start to go down people are more likely to panic and sell out, exacerbating the decline, and making short positions rise in value. Stocks don't usually jump up in a similar fashion, except maybe after earnings reports, which I find much too unpredictable to hold positions through.
I'm going to assume you're very new at this, and don't have substantial investment funds available. I can suggest a few things that could help, but the key is in mainaining a very long term perspective. Think in termn of compound growth. If you have a focus on making money fast, be prepared to lose it just as fast. You can possibly double or triple your money in a week with options, or lose half or more overnight. Believe me, I've done it more than once. If you can't afford to lose it, don't make the investment. Diversify your investments as much as you can, keeping money in various sectors and try to maintain some cash on the side. You don't have to make a killing to end up with wealth, but you do have to have consistant positive net returns. If you can achieve 1.5% per month ($1.50 per hundred) you will be beating most mutual funds. A mere 2% per month equates to almost 27% per year, and would turn $1,000 into $10,000 in ten years, or $115,000 in twenty. Put aside a set amount every week, no matter what, to add to your investments. I put aside an average of $35 a week for my son until he hit 18, so he's sitting on about $100k worth of investments as he approaches his 21st birthday next week.
Last, there's one strategy I've found to be fairly reliable, and that's to buy shares of a moderately volatile stock when it hits what appears to be a relative low point when viewed in a short term perspective, and sell call options against the stock. Right now I'm waiting for Oracle to dip a little bit more, perhaps to $19, to pick up about 1000 shares. Immediately after buying the shares I will look to sell the $20 calls for the upcoming expiration date (3rd Friday of each month) when the stock ticks up a little bit (adding value to the options). If the stock is at $20 or more when the options expire I lose the stock for $20 (making money) and keep the premium from the calls (making money). If the stock isn't at or above $20 at expiration I just keep the premium (making money) and sell the next months calls repeating the cycle. I don't care if the stock is at $20.05 or $22.00 if the options are exercised, because I made all the money I wanted to. It doesn't hurt my feelings to leave some on the table. There's always the possibility that the stock will decline, but when that happens I just keep selling calls against it, effectively lowering my cost basis. If it's a good company, the stock will probably regain the value before too long, and if it looks like it's really heading South I'll just sell the shares and be done with it.
BTW - I use Scottrade because I like their streaming desktop app. I watch about 30-40 stocks at one time, and I have the app set up to make it easy to keep an eye on everything. They have some drawbacks for options trading, but it works for what I need to do right now and they slowly are making changes to add capabilities. I think you still have to have $25k in an account to get access to the desktop app, but their regular web interface trading screens aren't bad.
Good luck. -
-
Re: brokerage recommendations
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 12:01 PMThanks John!
re: rock bottom, that was a good way of putting things. you are right of course, I've been following my top picks and they are not behaving as expected. I can see that rock bottom for a certain stock or index may not reflect a low point for other stocks. I am specifically thinking of investing in some of the investment banks and "capital growth" firms; what with the new jobs numbers and other news, I stand by my prediction that there will be more foreclosures resulting in additional writedowns in the value of those companies' CDO assets at the end of the second quarter, which should make their stock price dip. I plan to buy in at the low point (or somewhere on either side of it), hold the stock for a couple of years and hopefully make a good return on my investment. Cynical, risky, possibly a bad idea, but it's my plan. Of course, I intend to diversify a bit, and buy some more traditional stocks as well (telecoms, energy co's, etc.) so that if my investment banks unexpectedly go out of business I won't sustain a total loss. The problem with this, as you pointed out, is that those other industries are not following the same curve as the investment firms.
"I'm going to assume you're very new at this, and don't have substantial investment funds available. "
Guilty as charged!!! I agree, I am thinking long-term growth, focusing on stocks that pay dividends, which I intend to re-invest. My son is not yet two years old so I have a couple years to work on this but it would be nice to help him out like you described!
Scottrade is looking pretty favorable as a brokerage.
Thanks! Have a great day. -
-
Re: brokerage recommendations
Sat, April 5, 2008 - 2:56 AM"The problem with this, as you pointed out, is that those other industries are not following the same curve as the investment firms. "
Hahaha - Yup, but for a change, they're sync'd pretty close. Welcome to the world of investing/trading. I actually just started paying to keep an account at stockcharts.com just so I don't have to type so much to keep an eye on things. Previously, I had written some shell scripts to automatically open tons of individual web browsers each on a different stock/index in my watch lists - but it was becoming a pain.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-